Sunday, 12 July 2009

Why the scene can't work.

So DFL came back, EchoRing came back. They're both gone now. Voh booted out knyght and bunny from AP and made a return whilst deciding to 'steal' a feature from EchoRing (the newest updated site goes on top of the listing) without asking a member of EchoRing if this would be fine. Not that this bothers me in the slightest, but I always considered Vohaul to be the creative one in the scene and if imitation of EchoRing is needed then I'm happy to help (lets face it - a plethora of other rings in the past have done so) - but what gets me, is that the logo imagery on the listing is something I've always admired at AP, but never contemplated using for EchoRing - because quite frankly, it wouldn't be right.

Back to the actual subject at hand though - we've lost. We're fighting a loosing battle now. We are VCR's in a time DVD players are popular. Bit torrents are the norm now, even more-so then Napster was. We've got wikipedia even more popular as google. What does this mean? People are downloading games from bit torrents and reading reviews from wikipedia - simple as. People don't care anymore about that 'warm feeling' they get from going to websites - we're living in a more fast-paced society, then ever before - faster internet connections, bigger hard-drives and bigger rams and torrents that cut the shit and give you exactly what you need - with the help of wikipedia to help do so. We're living in a dream world, if we think that everyone from ten years ago or so, is going to come back to the scene and we will all join hands and dance and relive the oldtimes - it's not going to happen. It's down hill from here.

"I'm not here for the games you idiot, I'm here for the scene"

What scene though? There is nothing left. No vibrant point of discussion. The newspapers could care less about interviewing anybody about the subject anymore. Website hits are falling and people are (with exceptions) loosing the will to update anymore. From time to time, myself included - you will get people back in the scene who make these big announcements that they are 'back' and things are going to change and they will make sure they do - it just simply never works out. Once I/they see how increasingly quite the 'scene' is - it just works as a motivation deterant.

Don't cry for it: it's already dead.


voh said...

Wow. If it isn't the scene that's dead, it's definitely any insight you could ever lay claim to.

First off - I didn't boot Bunny and Knyght out. I wanted to fix some issues with the backend (for example, admin rights are f00ked), and they'll be returning as of tomorrow, if I can get a hold of them. In the meantime I'll pick up any slack.

Second off - the way updates are listed. My exact phrase on that was the following: "So the most up to date sites are at the top - Echoring style (thanks for the idea, guys!)."

I gave credit, and hoped that that would be enough. Not 'stealing' features from other rings was a good thing when there *were* other rings. It's just AR and AP now and all I could ever take from AR is bad updates and a list of deadbeat sites.

Besides, the change wasn't even that difficult, all it took was changing "BY name ASC" to "BY lastupdate DESC".

If using a feature from a dead ring is stealing, I'm not sure what you want any of us to do. All sites are similar to one another - and if a good function works on site X, then there's no reason to not use it on Y. When there's a need to diversify, you try and offer unique features, but when you're one of the few left, and those who HAD those options are gone...

Isn't it in everyone's best interest if those who are left look at what once was and continue it, rather than let it just disappear?

Man, there's a bit of ER in AP now, whether that's cool with you or not, I think that's a good thing.

voh said...

And just so you have the 'schoop', if you're even still interested in any of it - AP now allows the user to sort on last update, name and total games. Last update is the default.

Tom Carrick said...

Huh. I always thought that updated members first was an idea that goes way back; I remember suggesting it years ago - at least as long as I've been updating there, what 5 years? - and voh was for it but never got around it (like most things).

The scene isn't dead, it's just mostly moved to underground gamer, which has it's own set of problems, mostly that torrents aren't that viable for the old, smaller filesized games.

The Saint said...

You know what I appreciate about you guys? Coming here and double-teaming me, with comment penetration.

Seriously though - you are right. I support AP and if there are any features of EchoRing you'd like to use - please go ahead. AP is the only ring I respect in the scene and if it helps in anyway, I'd be happy with that. Your forum on the other hand is a different story - any chance of seeing some healthy discussion some time soon? I'm getting bored of reading threads from 2006 when I visit.

Whats more interesting about this, is that it further proves the decline in the scene. Readers take note: if I took a swipe at something/someone as popular as AP or Vohaul in the past - I would of came back the next day with 14 comments from people such as Tom, LuN, PhiB, Jante, Chango, Force, The-dud, Zhebuff - slating me. Not anymore.

phib said...

Yeah.. I was considering leaving a comment, but then I thought it was not worth it.

And now I just did it anyway.. -_-

marrsy said...

Costello: Well then who's on first?
Abbott: Yes.
Costello: I mean the fellow's name.
Abbott: Who.
Costello: The guy on first.
Abbott: Who.
Costello: The first baseman.
Abbott: Who.
Costello: The guy playing...
Abbott: Who is on first!
Costello: I'm asking YOU who's on first.
Abbott: That's the man's name.
Costello: That's who's name?
Abbott: Yes.
Costello: Well go ahead and tell me.
Abbott: That's it.
Costello: That's who?
Abbott: Yes.

et cetera

Mr old games said...

You go VOH! :)

I kind of deslike some of the Rings of the scene. But i really enjoy

I am really using aplaces as a abandonware scener not webmaster.

Anonymous said...

cool story bro

The Saint said...

Mr Old Games: Couple of questions for you.

1) AP is your favourite ring, yet from your website (and I'm probably blind) but I can't see a AP button on your site. Is there a reason for that?

2) Your website states that it's dedicated to Abandonware and oldgames. When you say oldgames, what does this imply?

The Saint said...

Oh yeah, lastly - "some" of the rings you dislike? There are only two rings around - could you elaborate please?

marrsy said...

The Saints ring is my favourite ring

after Diskboys of course...

The Saint said...

I just shaved my ring.

m a r r s y said...


was like a hairy volcano ffs

Unknown said...

Thing is, the people are here. They just don't commit for a very long period of time with the same amount of effort and quality. That's the problem, and why many claim it's not that vibrant as before.

If people use wiki and torrents to get what they need, why not adapt? GOG still exists, and they're the VCR too...

Believe in what good you do, and people will at some point thank you. Remember Wikipedia started small as well, in an era where encyclopedias were ruled by M$' Encarta and physical books.


Hey Simon, how can I get in touch with you? My email is :)

The Saint said...

Diskboy: You've gotta look in the mirror three times and say his name.

Bakkelun: what the deal with you and AR now?

the marrs said...

or check your mail, one of the two :)

Anonymous said...

"I would of came back the next day with 14 comments from people such as Tom, LuN, PhiB, Jante, Chango, Force, The-dud, Zhebuff - slating me. Not anymore"

Pfft. Loser :P

- The (incredibly bored) guy formerly known as LuN

Wandrell said...

I've been always supported of the Howard Roark way of "the few worthy ones will come to us". So I update, and if there are 500 visits, great. If we get 100, great. And if only 10 people visit, great.

Because I like our pages for visiting and finding games I wouldn't know otherswise, when visiting a page I care only about how useful it is to me. And when helping on a page I only care on how useful it would be for me (to this helps that visitors nearly never say a word of what they like or dislike).

So, if this all helps a single person like me, I won.

But if what we want is a lively community instead of a reason to update, why don't we have some forums or something? Abandonware communities will only die if they don't adapt.

Unknown said...

Bakkelun: what the deal with you and AR now?

What do you mean?

PS: If all of you could put the same effort into updating/work in the scene as you do debating it, things wouldn't be so supposedly "grim".

Wandrellg said...

By the way. What exactly happened to DaFastLane?

Also, I think a forum that could attract people would be great. Or at least a forum for the poor souls that somehow got mixed with the abandonware webpages.

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