October 2003: JaG interviews Bobosama

JaG: Bobosama. How did you discover abandonware? And how did you first get involved with it?

BoboSama: Back in 98 or 99 I had discovered a site known as OldNet which featured a mixture of Abandonware and OldWarez such as Discworld, Doom, etc. I had visited the site for about a year thinking it was godly when one day an announcement was posted that the site had closed. One of their affiliates was a site known as 3k Industries so I clicked on the link and was redirected to Diskworld

BoboSama: Diskworld was a pure Abandonware site, it was currently at version 2.0. I found the design and content to be of the highest quality. From there I spanned off to find sites such as Classic Trash and the Home of the Underdogs. However, I was still an OldWarez fella and began a site known as Anime-Crib Abandonware. I ran an Abandonware site in early 99 and had a year left on the domain so I used it

BoboSama: The site lasted for about two weeks and I had contacted Diskboy to affiliate with him. He told me that my site had OldWarez and from there I found out all about clean Abandonware. At first, I wanted to create a site with thousands of games, I also wanted something that nobody had done so I spent a few weeks downloading thousands of Apple IIe ROMS testing them, zipping them and started a site known as Anime-Crib Apple IIe Abandonware it was purely HTML based with a layout consisiting of some frames and a single background image I had over 2000 titles with nothing but file sizes, publisher names and download links. It was this site that joined 4Ham and Diskworld initially (I hadn't joined any rings yet) Then I had come to realize the importance of screenshots and reviews for creating a quality site. Diskworld had just unleashed V3 and I payed Diskboy to create me a php coded site, we came up with the name wizardware and I bought the domain wizardware.org so, the site known as WizardWare AbandonWare came to be. The reviews were short, the screenshots few, it received poor ratings and I was infuriated. I wanted to create a 4 to 5 star site, not a 2 star site I realized that I must do it myself if I will ever become trully dedicated to the site

BoboSama: Diskboy had unleashed Diskworld V4 when I had closed WizardWare. He let me keep the name "EmuGateway" which he thought up for a site that never took off. Through some Streamload message boards I was sent 89 Neo-Geo roms. I was stunned by their quality and the fact that the system was abandoned and so little known. I had contacted NeoPickaze being a big fan of EchoRing and asked him if he could help me out with a layout for EmuGateway, he had previously made a layout for WizardWare V2.0 (back in 01) but I decided not to go through with it. I had learned ASP, modified Neo's template, bought the domain emugateway.com and unleashed the website. By its final days, the site had an impressive 79 games with full reviews and 5 screenshots each along with cheat codes and manuals. It was well approved and beloved by all, receiving 500+ uniques a day I prefered to call it my one success up until that day. But an average Neo-Geo game is about 10mb and with that many visitors I soon couldnt afford the bill, so I was forced to close down the site. I attempted to reopen with only small games but the site lost its popularity because of that and eventually closed again with only 21 titles

BoboSama: I had reviewed 5 or so Neo-Geo games for Diskworld as I was given ownership of version 5.0. I had optimized a few things and updated a bit when I realized the same thing I realized with WizardWare, I did not create this, it doesnt belong to me, I have no connection to it and thus no motivation. For a while I simply sat around doing nothing. I had various people submit WizardWare 2.0 layouts but I wanted to create one myself. Before EmuGateway Gianni and I founded Creative-Eye, we had ripped off the layout from another site and got busted and combined with server troubles we split our different ways. However, Gianni had recommended me Fireworks MX as a program for image editing since that day, I have been using it for all my graphics works. I fired up Fireworks MX on my Mac and in 4 hours of work came up with my own WizardWare 2.0 layout/ I spent several weeks doing the code and bullet proofing it. Finally it was unleashed, but I no longer had the inertia to update after a database failure, so I added all the Neo-Geo games to it from an old database and sold it off to Gianni, thats it if I dont mention EchoRing. 

JaG: Wow, quite a story indeed.  But, now, I would like to know how you got the idea to resurrect EchoRing. Or why you were interested in running an abandonware ring, in general.

BoboSama: Back in the glory days of EmuGateway, Gianni was starting up the Emulation Ring, so I had decided to expand the EmuGateway into an EmuNetwork of sites, so I decided to create a ring known as EmuWare. I intended for it to be original but all of the things I incorporated had been done before. I was bashed by other ring owners as happens often when starting a new ring, we were just starting to pickup with about 7 or 8 members when I had to take down EmuGateway and without the Network, I saw no reason for EmuWare I had only recently opened WizardWare 2.0 to find EchoRing hasn't been updated for once by its new owners - I was simply outraged. I was also thinking about reopening ACRing a few weeks back but I didnt think I could live up to the expectations. The Saint and I got a talking about buying back the ring but we had no reply from the owners, so he had said he has the .co.uk domain and he could lend it to me if I were to create a new EchoRing, jumping at the opportunity, in just under a week I designed and coded the ring. After some initial server trouble we were up and running with more members in the first few days than a lot of other rings which had recently opened. Some people disapproved of the ring, others though there was no point to it while the true echo fans were delighted to see it ressurected, in the end, everyone came around in one way or another and EchoRing has prospered

JaG: Again, it's really quite interesting, all these happenings of yours.  And there isn't really any other specific thing I'd like to ask. So, if there's anything else you want to say, go ahead.

BoboSama: Haha, what a great interviewer you are. Basically, like all people who enter the scene, I wanted to open the next HOTU, to get big and famous, but I didnt know the inner workings and who to trust. Now that I am more mature and better adapted I hope to open up a big site in the future, with a big crew and high quality - so stay tuned.

BoboSama: anymore questions?

JaG: Oh, yeah. That's the other thing I was gonna ask. Any plans for the future?  Well, now that we know that there very well may be, we'll all be waiting to see what happens. Thanks for your time, Bobosama. Hope EchoRing lives on!

October 2003: Bobosama interviews The Saint

Bobosama: The Saint, aka Vinny, how long have you known NeoPickaze and when did you first come up with the idea of starting a ring?

The Saint: I first met NeoPickaze back in early 2001. I was running my site Assassin’s Abandonware (quite a low quality site) and he was running his site Relay Abandonware. We met through someone we both knew an Italian webmaster of a small Abandonware site called Wasp27. He had asked this guy if he knew anyone that would be willing to help him with his sitecand the Wasp27 guy gave him my ICQ number. Then we started talking, and hit it off from there.

In relation to running a ring - there had been two times, initially we were both running our little Abandonware sites, before Anti-TUOL, we had the name of the ring set up, and the design and a few features, to be perfectly honest, looking back it wasn't great and luckily enough, it never hit the ground. Later on we decided to start a ring for real, at the demise of Anti-TUOL. Basically we wanted to give TUOL a run for their money by making a proper ring, and not a propaganda site. The hardest part was thinking up the name for the ring really - we was just throwing random names at each other, then one of us came up with "echo" and we both automatically agreed it had a ring to it.

Bobosama: How successful was the first release and how actively did you participate in the later releases? Which was your favorite?

The Saint: I like to think EchoRing v1 was quite successful, because we had introduced new ideas that hadn't really been done before and putting more effort in. Webmasters saw this and they liked it, so they decided to join. Of course, if me and NeoPickaze just started EchoRing without having any former reputation, it would of been easier, we would of got more joins probably - but because we was known from AT, it had an effect on people. That didn't really bother us, we enjoyed it too much, to care. I'd be lying if I was to say all the flame-wars we had on DFL didn't help us, because they did. And I'd be lying if I said our previous reputations with AT didn't help us, because it did.

I was dedicated to version 1 & 2 a lot more then I was three really. Which was quite a shame because version three I wasn't really all there, because my interest for Abandonware was tiring down - but I was still on the drawing board with Neo, talking about features, trying to push mine through as much as possible, etc. 

My favourite version? It would have to be between Version 1 and 3 - oh and 4. Version 2 I disliked, because everything was through HTML and that was a pain to update everyday. 

Bobosama: What is your opinion on Echo 4.0 and what Bobo is trying to accomplish?

The Saint: Let me tell you something about that con artist, he has ripped EchoRing from us, without asking permission! The bastard! Haha. Seriously - I think it's great what he is doing, and ER v4 is smashing! He is dedicated and vibrant, and it's just what ER needs. I'd much rather have him run it, even if there is another Echo up. He's running it from the original ER domain name and he is doing a fantastic job so far!

Bobosama: There seem to be no screenshots of Echo 1.0 anywhere. Do you have some images of the ring that started it all or would you care to describe its layout for us?

The Saint: Yeah I got a few screenshots laying about somewhere. I'll try and find them for you. But in the meanwhile while I try and find them - EchoRing 1, was nothing special nowadays, but at the time, the design was original - it stood-out because we had a Moon/Golf Ball in the topleft corner and it looked pretty funky. Everything was blue and white just about.

Bobosama: Have you ever considered rejoining the scene? Perhaps starting a major Abandonware site or rejoining EchoRing?

The Saint: To tell you the truth: Not really. I pretty much find the scene a bit of a bore nowadays. I am currently working full-time, so when I get back from there all I wanna do is relax, after the usual back breaking day. So you could pretty much say me and Abandonware are divorced for good now.

October 2003: Bobosama interviews Diskboy

BoboSama: Thank you for agreeing to this interview. Lets start with the basics, when did you enter the scene and who were some of your first contacts?

Diskboy: Hmm... year 2000 I think it was, although it seems longer, so I'm not sure. First people? Hmm... Zbrains, Goth13, Lane, Marrsy people like that

BoboSama: What was your first site? How did you come up with the name?

Diskboy: Urrrrm... my first site, hmm, was 3k Industries *I think*. Name was generated from when I first joined the net - I used to use my surname plus 3000, 3000 = 3k, so I took that from there. I always thought that if I built a gaming site it would be like an industry, with many sections pumping through, so I went with 3k Industries - it was better than being one of the tons of people with the word Abandonware or Games in your site name.

BoboSama: How successful was your entry into the scene?

Diskboy: Depends what you mean by scene. When I first opened my site is was back when there wasn't a difference between Abandonware and Oldwarez, and there where two types of oldgames scenes - the public places and the underground movement. I wad first a part of the underground oldgames scene, member of AWTOP219, etc etc, which wasn't too bad of an entry, the site was getting about 100 uniques a day, was hosted on free servers and didn't even have a proper URL.

Now if we're talking about the public side of things, then it didn't start off very good, I got quite a bad reputation at first, but things slowly started getting better, I made a few wrong moves, which made things tough, but I pulled out and since then everything keeps getting better.

BoboSama: Can you briefly describe some of the more memorable points of your career including the infamous anti-TUOL?

Diskboy: Heh, Anti-TUOL wasn't exactly a memorable point but yeah, I supported that movement because a lot of people was blaming TUOL for not treating members with equal respect, giving bigger sites favouritsm, etc, etc. At first I didn't want anything to do with it, but eventualy I caved in. When I first properly entered the public scene it was via a "problem" at HOTU, so I guess that is a major point, urm, apart from that theres not any other major things to remember.

BoboSama: When did you open Diskworld?

Diskboy: Em... late 2001. Work started in november and the site was released properly in december.

BoboSama: What is your relation to The Saint? When did you first meet NeoPickaze?

Diskboy: The Saint is my cousin, which is why we are always affiliated with things in one way or another. NeoPickaze, hmm I met through The Saint during the Anti-TUOL situation.

BoboSama: What projects did you work on with The Saint? When did you first hear of EchoRing?

Diskboy: Urm, a few which are better forgotten about, as well as his first Abandonware site Assasins-Abandonware I helped him with some stuff there, he's written reviews for Diskworld when I owned it, we've both ran DFL, we've both updated at AR, I've hosted Echoring, his site GodfatherGames etc etc, the list goes on. I first heard about Echo when Anti-TUOL was dying. I remember a lot of arguments between The Saint and Warmonger due to the fact The Saint wanted to start his own ring - one based around quality, where as Warmonger was angry because he had opened a ring not so long before that.

BoboSama: What motivated you throughout the years to keep updating and working?

Diskboy: There was no motivation, only boredom and depression with my real life. Yeah, at first my goal was to have the biggest and best download site - which is a dream I think everyone shares, obviously HOTU are the royal family when it comes to that and you slowly realise you will never have the financial backing to get better than them. I guess after that it was mainly the fact I became obsessed with the internet, started getting more and more hooked into it, and thats what kept me going - what I wouldn't give to go back in time and never buy a first PC.

BoboSama: When did you first meet Bobosama? Any first impressions?

Diskboy: I first remember thinking how much money he had, heh.... He's a good guy, you can rely (spelling?) on him. I first met him I think it was when I was starting Creative-Eye (my hosting site). Originally it was a project between me and TZ, but it didn't work out as TZ was moving away, no internet etc etc, so I went to do it alone. Can't remember how we got in touch now but I remember speaking with Bobosama and we bought a virtual dead server off a guy which turned out to be shit, we went our own ways and just stayed in contact ever since.

BoboSama: What are your thoughts and opinons on EchoRing 4B?

Diskboy: Heh, sorry I was talking to marrsy and mongy started to flood me, at first I didn't like it. The reason was because I'd originally sold the proper echo to a client, and I thought it was wrong to have sold a site then have someone else open up another one, same name etc. So at first I was against it, but now it's slowly getting better in my mind. At least they are caring more about the site than the .com owners are, so it's all good in my books, no beef at this end, even that I still think The Saint was wrong and that it would have been better if you made a new ring completely.

BoboSama: What are your plans for the future?

Diskboy: In life, or Abandonware?

BoboSama: both

Diskboy: To get out. To try and find a way to slowly loose all responsibilities I have with various sites and drift away back into the real world - something which is so much harder to do that it is to say. Every day Creative-Eye gets more involved with the scene, and it should be doing the opposite. I've already let Diskworld go, which was a big step for me as it was my pride and job for 2 years or so. I don't want to take over the world, its better when theres fresh blood coming in and new sites opening, rather than the same guy running them all.

BoboSama: Thank you for agreeing to this interview.

BoboSama: Just one more question

BoboSama: What does "Your cherry on the ice -> Diskboy" mean?

Diskboy: It means I am your god.... nah, heh, it's just Jason playing around with the 4Ham's coding system, so when people type my name that shows up instead

BoboSama: That explains a lot. Any final words?

Diskboy: Yes, I never spam, but it's about time I had a turn - so check out Da Fast Lane - The number 1 community hangout which recently changed urls to www.dafastlane.net

BoboSama: Thanks again, may you be remembered as the Godfather of Abandonware.